Petshrimp.com Discussion Forum

I'm relatively new to invert-keeping, having started with a few Amano shrimp for algae control a few months ago. Since that time I've set up a few shrimp-only tanks and have gotten many more shrimp.

I've shipped in shrimp now about 5 or 6 times, from different breeders. All were shipped with priority mail and have arrived in good condition with no DOA's except for the last one. I ordered several cherry-type shrimp and 6 were DOA, plus 5 more died within 36 hours. I can only assume it was due to possible bad packaging (styrofoam *possibly* wasn't tight and therefore not insulated, but not really sure on that), and/or 2) colder weather (upper 40's upon arrival, box was left outside probably 7 hours, although another time the box was left outside and I had no issues. Package was delivered at 10:00 am and I got the package at around 5:00 pm. Shrimp were shipped priority mail with a 2-day arrival time. This is a shipper that has had good reviews from what I've been able to find out. No, I have yet to email the shipper to state what happened, as there wasn't any guarantee with the priority mail.

Opinions on what caused these shrimp to die would be greatly appreciated. Shrimp appeared to be older juveniles, 1/2 - 3/4", at least 2 berried females (one of which died). If it was due to poor shipping conditions, are the survivals still at risk of dying as well? The one surviving berried female seems to not be moving around much today.

In addition, I have lost one shrimp each (one yellow and one red cherry) in two of my shrimp tanks since I did a 30% water change yesterday. Both shrimps were young, maybe 5/8" long. I read that I shouldn't use the hot water as a way of temperature control, so filled up one gallon water jugs (for aquarium use only) and sat them in the sink with hot water around them to warm them up. I figured that would be a good way to warm up the water, but maybe not? I've had no known issues from using part hot water / part cold water for water changes with a dechlorinator so far, even with aquariums with shrimp in them, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. I usually use AquaLife Complete but also use Prime and recently got Fluval Shrimp Safe to use in my shrimp tanks as it specifically states it neutralizes copper. Any advise/comments on this would be appreciated as well.

Since I wrote this I found another young cherry shrimp dead (not from the problem shipment) This kind of reminds me of when I first started keeping fish ... for the first few months I had several losses. But I've had shrimp now for a few months and only now having some issues.

First Question.
How Long were the Tanks set-up before introducing the Shrimp ?

Were the Filters Pre-Cycled ?

For one shrimp tank, I've had it set up for a couple of months; the other one has been set up within the last month. In both cases, the filter media was taken from mature aquariums, as well as plants (Crypto and Java Moss). Shrimp were introduced within hours of setup with the mature media.

My other berried female from the problem shipment just died a few minutes ago <sigh>.

I read that I shouldn't use the hot water as a way of temperature control

I use a Tempering Valve on my Drip System for Controlling Temperature and have never had a problem.
Do you know if you Water is treated with Chlorine or Chloramines ?

Shrimp appeared to be older juveniles, 1/2 - 3/4"

I have found that Younger Shrimp acclimate easier than Older Shrimp.
I prefer 1/2" or smaller Shrimp.

Have you tested your Water Parameters ?

Do you know the PH of the water that these Shrimp were raised in ?
If so, was it close to yours ?

Depending on how cold the weather was on the day you received the shrimp, the temperature *may* have played a role. The ancestors of red cherry shrimp come from areas where it can get down to freezing, so they are actually used to cold temperatures. However, if this happens all of a sudden, as it would in a non-insulated or poorly insulated shipping box, the shrimp get very stressed and seem to suffer physical damage. So, if you had below freezing temperatures that day, then having a box that is possibly not even properly sealed sitting out there for hours may already be enough to irreversibly damage your shrimp. Having said that, most shippers out there have no idea what they are doing. A common, and really terrible, way of shipping is to just cut pieces of styrofoam and line a coardboard box with the pieces (and then cross your fingers and hope for the best). The "lid" is usually just another pice of styrofoam that just sits loosely on top. This does absolutely nothing for insulation in the winter. Unless you are some kind of computer/robot combination that can cut these pieces perfectly to the millimeter, the pieces never fit snugly together and have gaps all over the place. The only thing this shipping method does is provide some shock resistance...that's it...the bags in such packages are usually freezing cold if your weather is cold.

In any case, if your shrimp were improperly shipped, most, if not all, of them will die as damage in shrimp is cumulative...they don't seem to recover. It's like a video game/computer game...you, being a shrimp, have 100% health in the beginning, and every damage that you experience takes away from that..you can never get back to 100% (although you may do just fine for a very long time at, say, 80%). Once you reach a critical point you just croak. That's shrimp life for you. So, besides inappropriate packaging, the shrimp may not have been in perfect shape in the breeder's tanks to begin with.

Then, of course, there is the issue with your tanks. Although it may work out fine to immediately introduce fish after inocculating a new tank with bio-media (I don't even do that with fish actually) it almost *never* works out with shrimp. Your shrimp may seem all great and happy for a few days or even weeks, picking around, eating...possibly carrying eggs, but then they start dropping one by one. The tank is simply not mature enough yet and you are probably having minute, unmeasurable (with hobby kits) ammonia issues. I prefer to let the my new tanks run for at least 2 months before introducing anything into them to avoid such issues. What you want is shrimp that start picking immediately after you introduce them to your new tank and never stop picking. If they stop and sit around, possibly hiding, or just intermittently pick, that's a huge alarm signal.

There is, honestly, probably not much you can do right now to save your shrimp. I would perform a very large water change and then let the tank just sit there and mature. There is nothing else you can do. And, you really don't need anything else besides Prime. Prime does everything a water conditioner is supposed to do much better than even the supposed shrimp specific products...and it's more economical in its dosage.

Thank you. I figured the problem shipment shrimp could have lasting damage that could shorten their life.

I've received most of my shrimp in the boxes you describe, but the last one I think was the worst. I'm fairly certain the temperature was above freezing at delivery, but still colder that at least I'd want a live animal box sitting outside. The post office delivery people usually put the box inside the front door, as I live in basically a duplex with a front entryway. I've now seen from a couple of breeder sites that hold for delivery is available now at the (delivery) post office for priority mail so will be taking that route from now on with shipments in the future unless I can either be sure I can be here or the weather temperature is better.

I will increase my water changes in the two tanks I set up with just mature media. They both have basically cherry shrimp color morphs in them. I have 2 more shrimp tanks that were converted to shrimp only tanks from having fish in them for several months and I've had no issues with the shrimps in there. One having orange-eyed tiger shrimp and the other is Caridina sulawesi -- both sets of shrimp seem to be more active in those aquariums.

knxtninverts wrote:I've received most of my shrimp in the boxes you describe, but the last one I think was the worst. I'm fairly certain the temperature was above freezing at delivery, but still colder that at least I'd want a live animal box sitting outside. The post office delivery people usually put the box inside the front door, as I live in basically a duplex with a front entryway. I've now seen from a couple of breeder sites that hold for delivery is available now at the (delivery) post office for priority mail so will be taking that route from now on with shipments in the future unless I can either be sure I can be here or the weather temperature is better.

--Yeah, those boxes are, unfortunately, "standard" with most shippers. It's really a lottery with those. It may work out halfways ok in terms of live delivery if the weather is playing along and the shrimp you are shipping are hardy species, but many times it does not. Not worth the trouble. I'd rather do it the right way from the beginning. Plus, "live arrival" does not necessarily mean "in good shape." Live arrival is worthless if the shrimp start dying off one by one in the coming days and weeks due to damage during shipping.

I thought about the "hold at post office" option you're describing a little bit and I am afraid that it may lead to further delays. A lot of post offices close early and you may not be able to pick up your box the same day it arrives at the post office. That's another day of shrimp sitting in a box. Some post offices just generally only let you pick up boxes the next day for some weird reason, even if the box is already at the post office and not out for delivery still. I'm not too worried about my shrimp sitting around another day since I am confident in my shipping method, but it may make a huge difference with some of those poorly shipped shrimp in makeshift "insulated" packages. So, yes...they are not sitting outside, but they are also possibly sitting another day in a confined plastic bag.

I will increase my water changes in the two tanks I set up with just mature media. They both have basically cherry shrimp color morphs in them. I have 2 more shrimp tanks that were converted to shrimp only tanks from having fish in them for several months and I've had no issues with the shrimps in there. One having orange-eyed tiger shrimp and the other is Caridina sulawesi -- both sets of shrimp seem to be more active in those aquariums.

Proves my point and confirms my experiences. Older fish tanks that get converted into shrimp tanks *always* worked for me in the past. Tanks really need quite some time to be biologically ready for such sensitive creatures like shrimp. Even the supposedly "easy" red cherry shrimp will croak and die in tanks where many fish will be just fine.