Finally, i got very deep red ones!

[Flippers]

All the information provided along with this board that had years of testimony vs. people selling them that could care less about where the shrimp were coming from. Also so much detail about how to set up the environment. He could have let us wing it to up the chances of resale - in my book, that's a person with a good reputation. Hence my use of the word, reputable

In Malikta's case, however, she's talking about me as her "reputable source/breeder", so she's got plenty of evidence. I think you guys just had a little bit of a misunderstanding as you are on the same page actually.

Ooohhh oops !!! I thought Malikta was talking about another breeder. Sorry

[Flippers]

This is the 4th times releasing babies larvaes in my tank from january 2018

Are their offspring also red?

[Flippers]

and mostly sellers sent me the white or pink ones not the deep red ones.

Just looking at the pictures of your new shrimp I can immediately tell that you received wild-caught ones that just a few days or weeks ago were in some anchialine pool on Hawaii and then *most likely* were illegally removed

This may be a silly question, but how do we know that they were taken from the wild? Apart from the color, what is the difference? Can Opae Ulas who were captive bred sustain red color? And are there hobbyists who sell their Opae Ulas, even if it's not on a commercial level?

[Varanus]

Can Opae Ulas who were captive bred sustain red color?

In my experience they can but there is always some variation. It also seems to me like the longer I've had mine (going on a few years now) the more consistently red they have become.

[Super Jess]

I have a couple that are always red no matter what, and a couple that are always clear

[Mustafa]

This may be a silly question, but how do we know that they were taken from the wild?

For that you just need experience with wild shrimp. Morphologically you won't see a difference of course as they are all the same species, but in this case the color and the *usually* smaller size are a dead give away to the experienced person. Exactly because most people can't tell the difference you have all kinds of people out there claiming to "breed" them...most of them are actually in Hawaii...and at least one of them lives right next to a protected anchialine pond on the big Island and claims to "breed" them while only ever showing pictures of wild-caught adult shrimp in holding tanks. So..when you see shrimp offered for a very low price, there's a reason for it given how slowly these guys reproduce compared to freshwater shrimp.

The intense color doesn't last long which can be "wonderfully" seen in the ecosphere shrimp that are tiny and mostly not super red anymore as they have been in those things for a long time by the time you buy them.

Having said that, captive bred shrimp can be as colorful, and some individuals do seem to not lose their coloration when disturbed...if that trait is genetic or not or even permanent remains to be seen.

[Mustafa]

Ok, I figured out who the "mystery breeder" of these wild caught shrimp is from whom Erlina got her shrimp. I have a feeling it won't make any difference to Erlina (nor the fake breeder) at all because she refuses to understand facts and reason (or simply can't?) and doesn't really care about these shrimp beyond her desire to have temporarily "deep red" shrimp that she can look at, but at least it can serve as a warning to other members who care a little bit more about not purchasing wild caught shrimp and contributing to their exploitation in the wild (and mostly illegally at that).

The (fake) "breeder" is a member of this forum and started keeping these basically just last year. So he's a complete newbie, learning as he goes. He has three tiny tanks, two of which were established just within the last few months. A 6 gallon tank (started last year), a 5.5 gallon tank (started in November) and a 10 gallon tank that was just started end of February of this year. Just to put that into perspective...to breed and sell these shrimp in any number you need dozens of large tanks with 10s of thousands of shrimp. And then of course your shrimp won't look wild caught. He just posted in October that he sees larvae sometimes but doesn't really know what happens to them since he only sees few, if any babies....so it's absolutely certain he's not breeding these shrimp for sale.

Anyway, he's a native of Hawaii (Oahu) and now lives in CA. So obviously he has family and friend connections to Hawaii. (The *vast* majority of so called (fake) breeders are from Hawaii...how convenient with all those wild shrimp right next door). He ordered macroalgae from me last year but no shrimp of course...because he gets them from Oahu. You know who you are because you are undoubtedly going to read this. And you know that I know who you are. I'm not going to out you for now, but it would be nice if you stopped telling people that you are breeding these shrimp, that the shrimp are captive-bred, and that you are a "breeder." Even after I recognized your wild-caught shrimp on Erlina's pictures (and and on your own pictures actually, but I didn't say anything...) you are *still* telling people that they are captive bred and that you're a breeder while pretending to be concerned about their habitats here in the forum. That's truly despicable behavior, not only the lying part, but the deception for the sake of money.

Everyone else reading this: this is, unfortunately, very *typical* of so called "breeders" and other shady online sellers offering shrimp for sale to the unassuming public. Lies and deception are the rule and *not* the exception. They *all* claim they are selling captive-bred shrimp and/or are "breeders". It takes many years to breed a population of these shrimp that reproduces enough offspring to sell to others...and their price is going to be accordingly. $2.49 per shrimp for captive-bred shrimp that live over 25 years with the qualities of Supershrimp is NOT expensive. Just take a look at much more available freshwater shrimp and see that they often sell for many times that amount per shrimp. But of course everyone wants to get the cheapest deal they can get...and many don't really care if their shrimp are from the wild...illegally or not.

I could have done exactly the same thing years ago...it's easy enough to find people in Hawaii who are more than willing to do "business" with you by illegally catching and sending these shrimp (so they can have a bit more pocket change) , and then I could have claimed to be a "breeder". But I have a conscience, and I could not sleep at night knowing that I am not only contributing to the destruction of habitats and exploitation of an endemic species, but also lying to my customers. Whatever happened to integrity both in personal relationships and in business?

So, Mr. "Breeder", I hope you finally grow a conscience and stop this unethical behavior (lying to people...even if you don't care about the ethics of contributing to the exploitation of an endemic species in the wild). I am not going to tolerate this in this forum and on this website....and anywhere really.

[Nellyville41]

Preach!^^^

This is going off of my experience alone with Mustafa. I ordered the snails, macroalgae, and shrimps from him on 2 separate occasions (3 if you include the macroalgae and snails first to get it started).

Yes I was hesitant at first. Did I want to pay for separate shipping a few times? No. I asked if I can drive down to San Diego since I’m in LA to pick it up. Lol. I’m cheap. But in the end I bit the bullet and paid the separate shipping costs. They arrive and some were clear while others had a slight red. I didn’t complain about it. Just excited to see them. Eventually over time when everything settled 90% of them became red and 20% of that is deep red. So after reading thru this entire thread I feel as though complaining that you didn’t get “red shrimps right off the bat” is petty. Give them some time and let them relax and settle down. I was very surprised to see a berried female after 5 months. So that’s also a blessing.

Mustafa has been doing this for a while. If anybody can tell who’s catching shrimps illegally, it’s him. I’m sure he’s seen it all with this species.

[nova]

lol i breed tank bred opae ula and they are dark red like this so yes they can be tank bred at home and not just wild caught. Without proof they are wild bred its still a wild accusation to say the least.

[Mustafa]

lol i breed tank bred opae ula and they are dark red like this so yes they can be tank bred at home and not just wild caught. Without proof they are wild bred its still a wild accusation to say the least.

Have you even read *anything* that was written in this thread or on this website at all? It's not a "wild accusation", it's certain fact that the above mentioned person isn't a breeder. We have lots of people breeding these shrimp here and we all have very red shrimp too, so you breeding these shrimp isn't a big deal. And it's besides the point. There was plenty of evidence presented here and I haven't even presented all of it to not out the person. And anyone who is truly breeding these shrimp, and is being "accused" of being a fake "breeder" selling wild shrimp instead,while lying to people, would immediately jump into the discussion and actually defend himself with definite proof to the contrary. I know I would. Since there is no proof to the contrary that won't be happening.

This is just another unfortunate example of the same stupid scam that's been happening over and over for the last 14 years. There's always someone who thinks they can pull it off. To hell with the truth or animals or their habitats or the environment....

[Flippers]

lol i breed tank bred opae ula and they are dark red like this so yes they can be tank bred at home and not just wild caught. Without proof they are wild bred its still a wild accusation to say the least.

anyone who is truly breeding these shrimp, and is being "accused" of being a fake "breeder" selling wild shrimp instead,while lying to people, would immediately jump into the iscussion and actually defend himself with definite proof to the contrary. I know I would.

It is possible that this person doesn’t want to be “outed”, as you say. Or, since this declaration is relatively new, they may not have had the opportunity to reply.

I was pointed in the direction of a native Hawaiian breeder who explains that she sustainably helps care for the anchialine pools in her community and sends Opae Ulas to schools to further education. It would be a very elaborate scam. While she may not be breeding “commercially”, as Mustafa does, is it possible that, since shrimp do breed in captivity, that there are some small breeders who will sell “underground” to others who share the same interests as them and without advertising?

Where do pet stores get their Opae?

[Mustafa]

Pet stores on Oahu get them from mostly unlicensed people (i.e. illegally )who take them from the wild..mostly from the big Island, but I can imagine it happens in Oahu too. That's why they sell them for 50 cents to a $1 each...because that's how much shrimp go for if you can just pluck them from the wild next door. Dr. Santos from Auburn University (who is also originally from Oahu) has actually written a paper about this. He did genetic analysis on all the commercially available shrimp, from pet stores on Oahu, ecospheres, websites, you name it...and he found out that the vast majority of them are caught from the big island and almost all of them are caught by people without permits. Anyway, read this link. It talks about the paper and Scott Santos who i have been in contact with on and off for about 14 years now. He's very well aware of the problem:

http://raisingislands.blogspot.com/2009 ... -sold.html
(the "hobbyist in California" Santos talks about is me by the way...and he's also talking about me when he mentions "captive bred" shrimp)

If your "anchialine pool caretaker" is doing such a great job and has a sustainable and legal way of catching these shrimp from anchialine pools, then I'm sure she wouldn't mind telling us all about it. When you're hiding something or are "hush hush" about it there's usually a reason why. Funny how this all morphed from "I got them from a breeder who selectively breeds them" to..."the "breeder" (who is suddenly not a breeder anymore) pointed me into the direction of a person who is taking care of anchialine pools sustainably"...whatever that means. And nobody knows about this apparently except people who want to buy from aforementioned "breeder" and the person "taking care" of anchialine pools. Given the cultural importance of anchialine pools and Opae ula/Supershrimp to Hawaiians, this would be actual news that would be reported locally in Hawaii. It wouldn't stay hidden.

There is nothing "elobarate" about this scam. Someone in this forum orginally from Hawaii is buying wild-caught shrimp from Hawaii and selling them to people to make a quick buck and then making up some stupid, nonsensical stories with absolutely no proof like many others before him. He has been inquiring about which pet stores on Oahu sell these shrimp for how much elsewhere online for a while. You are free to believe whatever you want.

As for people breeding and selling shrimp to others...of course that's ok and totally fine. You may have noticed that I am very happy to see people breeding their shrimp in this forum and I do everything I can to help them do it. But those people wouldn't make up stories and they wouldn't be beginners who just started keeping these shrimp. It takes time for your population to grow to a large enough size for you to even think about selling your shrimp to others, even if you're not a "commercial breeder." It's just funny that most of these "underground breeders" happen to be either in Hawaii or from Hawaii where there is easy access to wild-caught shrimp and *none* of them wants to talk about it publicly...in a forum such as this one for example.

By the way, there is no "sustainable way" of "taking care" of anchialine pools. You just leave them alone and they take care of themselves. What is she doing, standing watch over the pool 24/7 to make sure nobody throws trash in it or poisons it or throws fish in there that can eat the shrimp? And then rewards herself with thousands of shrimp? The story is absolutely ridiculous. As for the "breeder" not wanting to be "outed", why not? If he's legit, then there's no reason to be hiding and hush hush about things,right?

In any case, I'm going to close this thread soon. It has served its purpose. The warning is out, people are free to use their own heads. I can't force people to believe something, no matter how much evidence is presented. If your "breeder" wants to comment, he can open up his new thread titled: "Sustainable anchialine pool caretaker speaks out" (or something similar) and provide evidence, pictures and everything else needed to convince us that this is all legit. Then I'll even applaud him.

[Flippers]

Pet stores on Oahu get them from mostly unlicensed people (i.e. illegally )who take them from the wild..mostly from the big Island, but I can imagine it happens in Oahu too. That's why they sell them for 50 cents to a $1 each...because that's how much shrimp go for if you can just pluck them from the wild next door. Dr. Santos from Auburn University (who is also originally from Oahu) has actually written a paper about this. He did genetic analysis on all the commercially available shrimp, from pet stores on Oahu, ecospheres, websites, you name it...and he found out that the vast majority of them are caught from the big island and almost all of them are caught by people without permits. Anyway, read this link. It talks about the paper and Scott Santos who i have been in contact with on and off for about 14 years now. He's very well aware of the problem:

http://raisingislands.blogspot.com/2009 ... -sold.html
(the "hobbyist in California" Santos talks about is me by the way...and he's also talking about me when he mentions "captive bred" shrimp)

If your "anchialine pool caretaker" is doing such a great job and has a sustainable and legal way of catching these shrimp from anchialine pools, then I'm sure she wouldn't mind telling us all about it. When you're hiding something or are "hush hush" about it there's usually a reason why. Funny how this all morphed from "I got them from a breeder who selectively breeds them" to..."the "breeder" (who is suddenly not a breeder anymore) pointed me into the direction of a person who is taking care of anchialine pools sustainably"...whatever that means. And nobody knows about this apparently except people who want to buy from aforementioned "breeder" and the person "taking care" of anchialine pools. Given the cultural importance of anchialine pools and Opae ula/Supershrimp to Hawaiians, this would be actual news that would be reported locally in Hawaii. It wouldn't stay hidden.

There is nothing "elobarate" about this scam. Someone in this forum orginally from Hawaii is buying wild-caught shrimp from Hawaii and selling them to people to make a quick buck and then making up some stupid, nonsensical stories with absolutely no proof like many others before him. He has been inquiring about which pet stores on Oahu sell these shrimp for how much elsewhere online for a while. You are free to believe whatever you want.

As for people breeding and selling shrimp to others...of course that's ok and totally fine. You may have noticed that I am very happy to see people breeding their shrimp in this forum and I do everything I can to help them do it. But those people wouldn't make up stories and they wouldn't be beginners who just started keeping these shrimp. It takes time for your population to grow to a large enough size for you to even think about selling your shrimp to others, even if you're not a "commercial breeder." It's just funny that most of these "underground breeders" happen to be either in Hawaii or from Hawaii where there is easy access to wild-caught shrimp and *none* of them wants to talk about it publicly...in a forum such as this one for example.

By the way, there is no "sustainable way" of "taking care" of anchialine pools. You just leave them alone and they take care of themselves. What is she doing, standing watch over the pool 24/7 to make sure nobody throws trash in it or poisons it or throws fish in there that can eat the shrimp? And then rewards herself with thousands of shrimp? The story is absolutely ridiculous. As for the "breeder" not wanting to be "outed", why not? If he's legit, then there's no reason to be hiding and hush hush about things,right?

In any case, I'm going to close this thread soon. It has served its purpose. The warning is out, people are free to use their own heads. I can't force people to believe something, no matter how much evidence is presented. If your "breeder" wants to comment, he can open up his new thread titled: "Sustainable anchialine pool caretaker speaks out" (or something similar) and provide evidence, pictures and everything else needed to convince us that this is all legit. Then I'll even applaud him.

I asked the breeder in question where he got his original shrimp and he sent me a website of a woman in Hawaii.


I’m staying neutral on this thread as I have yet to but my Opae Ulas from anyone (including Mustafa).

[Mustafa]

Ok, I have removed the link in your post to this person's online store because this is *exactly* the site and the person I am talking about when warning people about the exploitation of these shrimp in their habitats. I've been well aware of her for years. This individual lives right next to a protected reserve in Pahoa, Hawaii (Big Island) that has anchialine pools. Literally just walking distance away. Those are state owned anchialine pools that don't need a "caretaker." It's a big, fat lie and has been a big fat lie for years already...unfortunately. The fact that Hawaii does not properly enforce its own laws is a sad but true reality...unfortunately.